Courtship Webinar Summary: by Mrs. Lydia Hoppman

The webinar started off with a period of time to answer the questions
that come in each week from the listeners. The questions were many
and I didn’t record them all but here are some of the key ideas gained
from those questions. Mr Botkin spoke of the importance of NOT just
marrying a “nice girl” (or boy) and said a successful marriage isn't
guided by “we don’t argue or divorce”. It should be a strong, selfless
picture of love. They really stressed not settling for anything less.
A person needs to understand that the main goal is to know God and make Him
known and if that includes marriage that is great! Discipleship should
already be in place, not something that happens “once I get married”
type of thing. Marriage is definitely normative, yet shouldn’t be all
one thinks about before it happens. Marriage is not the end-all in
life. Productivity and fruitfulness can be accomplished while
preparing for marriage.

In speaking to Ben and Audri about their courtship process, Audri
mentions that she wasn’t looking for “an out” of her family. She
honored the authority structure in her family and knew she was needed
at home. When Ben did enter the picture everyone knew he had to be
something evn higher in priority than her own family in order to take
her away. She had her priorities in place and wasn’t out looking to
escape her responsibilites in
other words.

Once Ben began thinking that Audri might be that one, he went straight
to Audri’s father and told him that he saw many admirable traits in
Audri, yet that he didn’t know for sure if “she was the one”. He then
asked Audri’s father what his thoughts regarding this were. Ben asked
her dad if he thought it was alright to get to know her better. This
was spoken of as a good pattern and guideline to follow.

The Botkin’s said that young men should regard all other young ladies
as someone else’s wife as long as they are not married, so as to NOT
violate the young lady’s feelings prematurely and so forth. Each must
be so careful in this area!

Something else that was discussed was the importance of the young man
walking with older and wiser men to learn all he can about marriage.
Honest communication must be in place. Audri's father basically descipled
Ben during this whole process of getting to know Audri and the family.

Another critical point made was that the young man, or young lady,
should never make themselves out to look better than they actually
are. As said earlier, honesty really is the best policy! Wrong
impressions will later be found out and give a deceptive view of the
one who is trying to look good. Be really honest about weaknesses
and failures. Ask others such as family and friends about the
character of the one being discussed. You don’t want to set up false
expectations. It will only hurt them both in the end, if they don‘t
practice this truth factor. (perfection is NOT expected, just honesty
and openess) When talking about how much to tell each
other, the Botkin’s said you obviously don’t need to give every detail
and gory story about each others failings and such, but only those character
traits or weaknesses that might potentially hurt the marriage and
needs working
on, so each can decide whether they can help each other with this
particular problem, or whether this has been, and is, dealt with.
Either way, each
goes into marriage fully knowing what to expect. Full disclosure is
far better than looking good to impress and finding out later!! Being
blunt, honest and real with each other is necessary in order to make a
sound decision in good conscience before God..

Again it was discussed that defining terms for marriage and courtship
are really important before beginning the process.

Some of the topics given to discuss were:
Family traditions
Relationship to God
Favorite books, movies etc
Favorite scripture passages
Goals
Passions
Vision
What is each looking for in a spouse?
What does each need in a spouse?
Parenting
How to handle various situations
Doctrine
Church government and leadership
Women in he church
Mistakes made and how they were handled
Politics and current events

This should all be sober and not a giddy time!

The woman really needs to know whether or not she can submit and
follow this man and the man needs to know whether he can lead this
young woman and such.


There were many, many more that I didn’t get down in writing, but the
ideas stated were just to get the thought processes rolling, so-to-speak. The
Botkin’s really didn’t want to give lists as if their way was the
only way.

Prayer was discussed as a way to begin each talking time and to end
each as well. Commit all to God to give them wisdom and truth and a
productive time together. They feel that “talk-time” is serious
business!

Ben and Audri actually got to know each other long distance and spent
very little time together because the Botkin’s had moved right before
they started courting. This was radically different from David and his
courtship. Each one will be different so the families need to be
flexible .Each person is different and each situation is different
which is why reliance upon God and His wisdom is entirely necessary!

Again, the need to “interview” each family was a way to learn a lot
about each other and both Ben, Audri, David, and Nadia found this so
helpful.

Another point made was that emotions had to remain in control
throughout the process so as to not base decision on them alone. It
was mentioned that decisions shouldn’t be made on things less
important than those that are spiritual.

The difference between sensual love and love for others was
explained. They went into a long explanation of the need to keep this
aspect under control while in a courtship stage. Phillipians 1:8 was
an example given of how Paul
loved the church and yet it was a proper love. Love is good when it is
applied as selfless love and concern for the other over self. In all
relationships this is a good practice anyways.

Closeness and touch was discussed and the general conclusion made was
that hands off is best, while courting, but again depending on each
individual situation and people involved, ( some believe to hold hands
is alright during courtship) but usually the bestway to avoid wrong
emotions and premature feelings is to wait for marriage before holding
hands and so forth. They spoke oferring on the side of caution always!
Lookout for what is good andright in God’s eyes. We are to guard
against giving opportunity to theflesh. Caring for the soul of the
other was
mentioned as very important.The Botkin’s clearly spoke of the aspect
of not “looking forward to”being alone. The young man should NEVER
consider the young lady “his
girl” at all, until they are married and vise versa! This could fall
into covetousness as well. (desiring something that is not lawfully
yours)

The parents hopefully have been guiding and instructing both parties
while young, up to present, in order to make good and wise decisions
regarding marriage. The other important issue was the idea of parents
NOT telling their young adults what to do or what decision to make,
but instead helping them to think and guiding them through the
process. The ultimate decision still belongs to the two involved, in
the end.

Nearing the end of these two sessions the idea of not leaning upon our
own understanding and trusting in God as ever so important in making a
right decision. Read the word of God together and discuss the meaning
of what was read. Pray together. You can find out so much about a
person and their relationship with God by the way they pray. Worry
not! Fear not!

The young man must be willing to lay down his life for the woman. (Is
he?) Can the young lady help the young man in consideration with his
weaknesses and walk along beside him and support his vision and
purpose? They each must ask the crucial question: Am I the best person
for him/her?? God will give right desires when each desires his will
not their own. It isn’t about “what I want” but rather, what is
bestfor the other! Wow! What a concept in our day and age! So often,
sadly, it is more about self in our day and age!

As for a time frame, the idea was mentioned that he courtship should
take as long as needed, while being as short as possible! I thought
that was great and wise advice! If there is no legitimate reason for
doubt, the Holy Spirit will make it evident and clear.

Here are some more and repeated guidelines to help in making a decision:

Look for the fruit of the Spirit
Does each love the word of God?
Is there love for each other more than self love?
Is there evidence of each growing in discipline and maturity?

Another question to ask is, "who are your disciples?" What a great
question to ask! Does each have a desire to serve God, is it taking
place now in their lives? Looking at the family legacy of each family
can also be very helpful in determining the potentials of a suitor.
Look for a depth in their relationship with God, not just a shallow
walk with God.

I could go on and on because there truly was so much covered. I think
I have given a fairly good idea of the most important topics
discussed, and I know I have even been somewhat redundant. I hope this has been
very helpful to anyone who reads this.

God Bless you!

In His Grip,
Lydia Hoppman

From Other Writing Desks…

Hello! This following article was written by a wise, Godly lady, named Mrs. Lydia Hoppman. She summarized the first webinars produced by the Botkin family on “Marrying Well”. The next additions will soon follow. I’m sure you will enjoy this valuable advice as much as I did!

-Hannah T.

I have been enjoying a webinar entitled “Marrying Well”.  The speakers are Geoffrey Botkin, his wife, Victoria and their two sons David and Benjamin, and their wives Nadia and Audrey. The Botkins speak of how they each met and how they got to the marriage alter. They wisely began with telling the listeners not to take all they say without consulting God’s word and mentioned that they are not experts on this topic. Mr Botkin gave an excellent introduction explaining they are not championing their own methodology or selling anything. They go on to say they simply want to take their own experiences and give guidelines to the listeners, but that each family will have to decide for themselves the best way to go about courtship, or whatever each  family chooses to call it. I really appreciated how thy spoke about how each situation, with each couple, will be totally different.
Mr Botkin spoke at length of how our hearts are not free agents or a separate entity. We must keep our hearts with all diligence!

All the Botkins speak very candidly from their hearts and I appreciate their genuine way of sharing  their own weaknesses and failings. They definitely don’t come off as prideful or as  having “all the answers”

What a blessing to hear each  one speak. So far I have heard David and his wife Nadia speak about how they met and what they did to ensure they were the  right one for the other.  I also heard some from Benjamin Botkin. So far I have heard two sessions on this topic. What they have covered thus far is the reasons for marriage, which is very important in choosing the right potential life partner. Marriage is explained as being for the purpose of working together to bring reconciliation of the world to Christ, secondly, to give a picture to the world of Christ and the church. Basically, in summary, the gospel work and gospel image, ar the primary reason and picture of a Godly marriage.

The  Botkins said how important it is to find someone who shares a common vision and love for Christ. A question each man can ask himself also is this: “Am I willing to give myself up for her?” The young man needs to find a young woman who needs him; not just someone he needs. In praying for his/her  potential spouse, can each pray for the others potential spouse in selflessness? That is a true mark of humility. maturity and desiring God’s will, rather than their own. It was interesting how they spoke of how important it is when in a friendship with the opposite sex, and trying to discern whether or not they are the one, that each be able  to love the other. Interesting! Loving unconditionally, rather than selfishly is the key! They each need to love the other enough, to protect them from wrong feelings too soon and treat them with respect and honor. They must treat each other as a brother or sister in Christ.

Another point the Botkins made, was that if the young man doesn’t have  vision now, he won’t necessarily, later. What he is now, he will be later. How mature is he?

As parents, we should be teaching our children at a young age how to treat those of the opposite sex, how to think about them  and what the proper  roles are, before the world or media does! We can be discussing  people we have met and what good, or bad, character traits they possessed and why we, or they, thought so.

Another good  point made was they each need to have a vision much  larger than  to simply have  a partner! Instead they should be desiring someone in which to serve God with. Looks shouldn’t be primary reason for marrying. Looks fade and the inner person is what should draw them to each other. Love for God and His word should be primary. Samson was sited as an example of someone who was lead by  his senses and  how it destroyed him! Mr Botkin and Nadia also mentioned how a young lady will appreciate being admired or esteemed  for who she is in Christ and her Godly attributes more than for her looks!

Another  way to tell whether one is responsible and mature is are they willing to confess  their faults to their parents. Humility should be in place and a desire to do what is right before God. Some of these things seem obvious, and yet, it was so good to hear each one of the Botkins share their own personal  experiences and paths and to hear the  often needed reminders.

They talked also about how each potential mate does not have to be 100% the same in thinking. So often in the Homeschool movement we can set up  standard so high and it  often isn’t realistic. We are all fallen sinners!

Course jesting and joking are out of the question in friendships with the opposite sex. Serious talk about spiritual matters are every important, helpful and needful if you want to know whether someone is right or not for marriage.  Conversations should be substantial, serious and personal. All activities done  should be in family settings so as to watch interactions with siblings, parents and to guard purity.

Another really interesting question they said  a man can ask himself when examining whether a certain young lady is a right match is this: He must ask himself if there isn’t someone else who could better take care of the young lady in mind, or is he the best one? Can he love her more than himself and be willing to give up the idea of marrying her if someone else might be the better one?  Difficult yes, but a truly mature and selfless attitude. They can ask each other what struggle and weaknesses they have, ask theological questions ,parenting issues and desires,  and methods of home education desired. Can the young lady follow and support  the young man’s vision? Can he love her and  honor her? Can he lead her? There are many potential questions in finding proper compatibility. It is interesting to note that David Botkin prayed for his spouse for twelve years before he met her! He is the oldest in the family, and he married after Benjamin. Benjamin had only been praying for his spouse for three years. Benjamin is the fifth child in the Botkin family, he was 22 when he married and when David married he was 28. God works differently and we all need to be wiling to wait upon God’s perfect timing!

There  was so much covered and so many things I could go on about. They spoke of potential hard questions to  ask the other in the “talking/courtship phase”. What comes most naturally though, the Botkins said, is asking real life questions. Ask questions to do with what each is doing right now, for the Kingdom of God, political thoughts, spiritual goals, scriptures being memorized etc. Are the two better able to serve God together was another important question to ask. Can each find their fulfillment , joy, and hope in Christ, because they will each be marrying fallen human beings!

Overall, each must be wiling to do the hard things to make sure this is a match made in heaven and not coming  the flesh alone. God leads and directs, as the two in consideration  honor Him.

I thoroughly enjoyed hearing and learning from the Botkin‘s! I will write to you again once I have heard the third session tomorrow evening!

God Bless and I hope you find this helpful!

Mrs Lydia Hoppman

Gossip

A destructive fire is burning wild in the church. Behind the scenes, Satan is acting as a glorified telephone operator, cackling as he connects wires and pushes buttons. Unfortunately, he need not exert himself further. Christians are doing his dirty work without even recognizing the damage they are causing. This problem is known as gossip. Too often, it is dismissed or ‘renamed’. Called ‘chatting’, or ‘airing concerns’, gossip is no better than gilded backstabbing. Let’s see gossip for what it is.

The first earmark of gossip is that it happens when the person being discussed is absent: the subject has nothing to do with a surprise birthday parties either. It could be about something this person said or did; it might be a criticism or it might not. It could be a sensitive issue or it might be very innocuous, but there will be an element about the conversation that would cause everyone to abruptly change the subject if the person in question entered the room.

The rule of thumb should be never to say anything about a person that you would not say to their face. Also, don’t repeat anything they have told you, whether or not it was specifically confidential. Let discretion guard your speech to the extreme. Now, I can hear somebody asking, “Does that apply to a casual remark like, Did you hear that Angie got a new dog?”? Yes and no. Isolated, it’s not necessarily a harmful comment, but bringing up Angie when she is absent invites other comments. You can get suckered into gossip in two shakes of a lamb’s tail. Another rising habit is for gossipers to say, “I won’t mention any names, but…” (Red flags!) even if nobody recognizes the person talked about—and in nearly every case, the other conversant will—the principle is that you have broken covenant with your tongue.

Ladies, I’m afraid this especially applies to us. Women are communicative critters, and it’s easy to be indiscriminant once a bunch of ladies gather for a gab fest. Be very cautious not only in what you say, but in what you are wiling to listen to. Be brave. You may have to get up and leave the conversation or even ask the others to turn to another topic.

The Bible does not have pleasant things to say about gossip. “He that passeth by, and meddleth with strife belonging not to him, is like one that taketh a dog by the ears…Where no wood is, there the fire goeth out: so where there is no talebearer, the strife ceaseth. The words of a talebearer are as wounds, and they go down into the innermost parts of the belly. Burning lips and a wicked heart are like a potsherd covered with silver dross.”—Pr 26:17, 21, 22, 23

Gossip tortures hearts, tears apart families and friends, and drags God’s banner through the mud. We must avoid it at all costs!